Sales & Marketing Secrets Podcast

How to Set Up a System and Process to Work zBuyer Leads

Episode Summary

Lead generation is an essential part of the real estate industry. Fortunately, there are a number of lead sources available for agents to choose from, including internet leads like zBuyer and REDX. Unfortunately, however, many agents aren’t able to effectively work these leads to get the most bang for their buck and end up blaming the source rather than the process. We interviewed Grant Kropfeld of Keller Williams (Metro Detroit) to see how he achieved great success working zBuyer leads. He dives into the psychology behind the lead source as well as his personal (and clearly effective) follow-up process.

Episode Notes

Whether or not agents are successful with zBuyer leads comes down to how dedicated they are to converting them. We’ve seen time and time again that consistency and practice, especially with scripting, can make all the difference when it comes to conversion. Beyond that, there are a number of other systems and processes that can make the journey smoother for both agents and sellers; however, it is up to the agent to do the work.

Episode Transcription

Isaiah Colton (00:13:49):

Hey, everybody. This is Isaiah Colton with another episode of Real Insider Pro, Sales and Marketing Secrets. And one of the things we're going to be talking about today is how to set up a system and process to work zBuyer leads. Okay, so we're doing a whole series on working zBuyer leads.

Isaiah Colton (00:14:07):

And the reason why we're doing this is because, often, in our industry, we get involved and we get really excited about lead generation, and, almost like a drug, you're like, "New leads, new leads." And we have it in our minds, we think that the leads are maybe going to be more ready than they are. Sometimes we have misconceptions on how to work the leads. We don't know what to expect.

Isaiah Colton (00:14:29):

And I'm a huge fan of zBuyer, both for our local brokerage and for our clients that we refer zBuyer to. And so, our mission here, in today's podcast, is to break down, in a scientific fashion, how to follow up and convert zBuyers every step of the way.

Isaiah Colton (00:14:49):

And I am very pumped up to have Grant with us here today because he is a master at working zBuyer leads, and he's just running an awesome business.

Isaiah Colton (00:15:00):

And, Grant, before we go ahead and get started here, why don't you just tell the audience a little bit about yourself, where you're from, and then why you decided to work zBuyer?

Grant Kropfeld (00:15:11):

Yeah, so I'm Grant Kropfeld. I am out of the Metro Detroit area through broker eXp, and, actually, just a week into it with eXp, but we've been working-

Isaiah Colton (00:15:22):

Oh, congratulations, man. That's awesome.

Grant Kropfeld (00:15:24):

... from KW a week ago.

Isaiah Colton (00:15:26):

Okay.

Grant Kropfeld (00:15:27):

We're excited, looking forward to it. But yeah, I've been in the business going on three years now. My business partner that started the team that I now run, he's been in the business for almost 20 years, and between us, we move quite a bit of houses. And we've seen a lot of success, but early this spring, we were talking with another couple, who are agents out of our office back at KW, and they had mentioned this program, zBuyer, that they got into. And they showed us it, and they had already gotten a couple of solid leads out of it and stuff. So we looked into it, talked about it, and I had to go back, look at my emails, and it was actually April 8th that we officially signed up for zBuyer.

Grant Kropfeld (00:16:14):

And right off the bat, within the first month and a half, we got two solid leads out of it that ended up converting. Coming into May, I'm in the Michigan National Guard as well.

Isaiah Colton (00:16:30):

Okay.

Grant Kropfeld (00:16:30):

And I had to leave for about seven and a half weeks. So me being the primary person that works a lot of that stuff, my business partner, he does a lot of the investing side, and he has a heavy referral side to it as well, I didn't have the time to work it for about seven and a half weeks.

Grant Kropfeld (00:16:50):

So leads compiled and came in, and I came back mid-July, but from mid-July until today, we're at seven closed transactions, one's going to close in a week, and a referral out of one of those transactions.

Isaiah Colton (00:17:05):

Wow, that's awesome.

Grant Kropfeld (00:17:06):

It's converted a lot for us, on top of what we do on a regular basis. And I'm not really doing that much more adding onto what my normal schedule was prior to getting zBuyer leads.

Isaiah Colton (00:17:19):

That's awesome.

Grant Kropfeld (00:17:20):

Yeah.

Isaiah Colton (00:17:21):

And, Grant, I had a couple questions to ask you, to go down methodically and scientifically through how you worked these leads to get those closings. But, before I do that, if this is your first time watching our podcast, I talk a lot about our sales acceleration blueprint, and I want to explain what that means if you haven't watched this.

Isaiah Colton (00:17:38):

So we believe that the idea of operating underneath a sales funnel, traditional ways of thinking, is very linear and very short-term-minded when it comes to building a business. And when we have that mindset, we tend to make decisions based on the short-term and not on the long-term. And because we're doing that, we're not creating a scalable business, okay? We're living in the moment, and we're just going from commission to commission.

Isaiah Colton (00:18:04):

And so, what we teach is, instead of functioning off that, that we function more off what we call flywheel model. So if you look on the back of my screen here. This is a very transactional model, leads come in, we try to convert the leads, and we hope we get enough to cover our ad spend or the cost of the lead, and get a transaction and a paycheck. And that's, unfortunately, how a lot of us were taught in this industry, is the sales-funnel mindset.

Isaiah Colton (00:18:29):

And what we want to encourage you to do is to think about this more holistically, to look at your lead generation, which we're talking about today. But then, really think about it as a relationship, and it doesn't matter what lead source it is. We're talking about zBuyer today.

Isaiah Colton (00:18:45):

But this is a relationship-based process, where you have to focus on your data view. You got to manage that lead to the life cycle of that lead and have effective systems for lead follow-up, and making sure that you're engaging with those leads in social media. And then, also, have systems in place to improve your skills, your ability to work that type of lead, and or, if you have an inside sales team, their approach, their ability to work that lead need to adjust depending on the niche that you're working in because every lead's a little bit different, has a little bit of a different approach.

Isaiah Colton (00:19:19):

And then, also, thinking about this not only in terms of getting the closing, but making sure that we're considering and we're factoring in their experience throughout the whole process. So that way, if they have a good experience, they become a raving fan, and they become part of our sales force. And then, within that, we keep working on our systems.

Isaiah Colton (00:19:39):

And as we get this down, now, we're going to start attracting agents. It's going to be a lot easier to build a team and plug people into this model because we have systems, folks. And that's the keywords, you're going to notice I'm going to ask Grant some questions, and it's going to be all about putting a system in place to make sure you're not just spending money on leads, but they're converting.

Isaiah Colton (00:20:01):

And so, Grant, with that in mind, my first question is, zBuyer's a little bit of a different type of lead than other leads, could you explain, specifically, on the seller side, the difference in the psychology of how this lead comes in? If you would?

Grant Kropfeld (00:20:20):

Yeah. So what I've noticed is, and I haven't personally seen any of the zBuyer ads, but what I've noticed is that they're usually expecting some sort of instant cash offer right off the rip, which is fine because I know that kind of eye buyer is a very... stopping while they're scrolling or catching their eye when they're searching.

Grant Kropfeld (00:20:50):

Being able to gauge and then, potentially, change that mindset or that subject when you talk to them is really the only key, the only initial hurdle you have to come over because some people are expecting that instant cash offer. What I've found that has had the most success is that I am basically offering them, potentially, cash offer, or I'm talking to them about potentially listing it on the MLS.

Grant Kropfeld (00:21:24):

So we do have a heavy investor list and partners that we work with, and we also flip houses ourselves. We have three right now that we're in the process of flipping. So we can go in, we have our own private lender, stuff like that, so if it's a good enough deal, we can go in and offer them cash ourselves. But it's a good way to start the conversation, and to help get that meeting, is to say, "I haven't seen the property. I don't know what condition it's in, and until I do, until I can get my eyes on it for about 15, 20 minutes, I won't be able to determine what a solid cash offer is, and I also wouldn't be able to determine if maybe this is something that you're going to benefit most by listing it on the MLS," so.

Isaiah Colton (00:22:07):

Yeah, and I think that's a really good point because I know a lot of people are hearing that, who's like, "Well, I don't want to work a lead that has a cash offer associated with it." Well, here's the thing, it's the trend now. It's what's attractive people. It's what's happening.

Isaiah Colton (00:22:18):

And if you're going to be a really good marketer, you have to understand that it's about adjusting our process to the trends, and then, making sure that we're not just being too close-minded to say, "I only can get this type of lead," because you'll never ever be able to have abundance in what you're doing, or enough leads if you're just expecting things to be perfect, if you will.

Isaiah Colton (00:22:37):

And the other thing that's really exciting about this is that the way the market's moving, you should be thinking about having alternative options for your clients.

Grant Kropfeld (00:22:50):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Isaiah Colton (00:22:52):

Whether that be a retail option, or whether that be an investor option or something in between. Because if we're going to compete in today's market, we want to be thinking of that.

Isaiah Colton (00:23:03):

I love, Grant, that you have that setup, is to be able to have the conversation both ways. This question wasn't necessarily on my list, but let's talk about that too, how many of them really understand the negative sides of a cash offer, do you think?

Grant Kropfeld (00:23:24):

So most of them don't, so that's the conversation I have to have with them too, is, I think, the thought that they have in their head is like, "Oh, I'm going to get a cash offer at market value tomorrow, and they're going to buy it from me tomorrow." And I have to bring them back down to earth a little bit, and say, "That's just an option. If you have a certain number that makes sense for an investor because... it's a business. Real estate is a business at the end of the day, so nobody's going to purchase something that they're going to lose money on."

Grant Kropfeld (00:23:59):

And some people again, they're not necessarily thinking that it's going to be a drastically lower price than what they would potentially get on the MLS, but some properties are just... and in Metro Detroit, there's certain pockets where I know, as soon as I see that street, that I'm like, "This is probably going to be a flip because I know this neighborhood. I know this street. This is going to need some work."

Grant Kropfeld (00:24:24):

And a cash offer might be exactly what they want and what they need. They might be okay with taking a really low number because maybe the house is paid off or they have a very small payment left on it, and they just want to get out of it. They don't want to have to deal with replacing the roof and replacing the windows, and painting, and all the stuff that would go into a flip, and they're ready to get out.

Grant Kropfeld (00:24:42):

But we've only had, out of all the leads, two that ended up being flips so far, and we've had seven that we've listed on the MLS. So it makes sense to them when we sit down and lay out the numbers, lay out the process, and we say, "Hey, this is probably going to be best to list it on the MLS. It doesn't sound like a cash offer is the way you want to go."

Isaiah Colton (00:25:08):

For the agents that are just learning how to work these types of leads, I want you to frame this a little bit different in your mind, to say, "This is actually a good thing," because it's an opportunity to position yourself as a consultant, and it creates a natural conversation and gives you a very good reason to meet with them in person. It almost justifies why you have to meet with them in person.

Isaiah Colton (00:25:34):

So look at the angle to work these leads as, actually, a positive thing, not like, "Oh, my gosh, I have to overcome this." It creates a very natural transition into meeting in person so you can explain the different options for them.

Isaiah Colton (00:25:52):

Would you agree with that, Grant?

Grant Kropfeld (00:25:53):

Absolutely. Absolutely. It's almost one of my things, is I'm trying to always set myself up as an expert and as a consultant. And that has to happen in that first conversation, you have to show that you're competent, that you know you're stuff, you're not just a fly-by-night agent, and that helps to build the rapport, and build the confidence, so when you do ask for that appointment, that walkthrough, they're much more apt and trusting when you ask for that.

Isaiah Colton (00:26:20):

That's awesome.

Isaiah Colton (00:26:21):

And so, walk us through a little bit about... because I want to get into that dialogue a little bit more, but how many contacts do you say that you have to make to have a good conversation per 100 leads, let's say, just a rough guesstimate?

Grant Kropfeld (00:26:38):

If I'm calling through about 100 leads, my talk rate, if I'm in a good talking hour, which is usually like 8:00 to 10:00, or 4:00 to 6:00, during the weekdays, 100, I'm going to get about 20 to 23, on average, talks, conversations where I'm actually going through my script. And then, out of that, honestly, on a bad day, maybe I get one walkthrough, on a good day, I get four or five.

Isaiah Colton (00:27:07):

Awesome. So it's a realistic expectation that out of per 100 leads, worst-case scenario, somewhere between 10 to 20 conversations on a worst-case scenario, is that fair to say?

Grant Kropfeld (00:27:18):

Oh, yeah.

Isaiah Colton (00:27:20):

Okay.

Isaiah Colton (00:27:22):

And then, you said how many appointments out of those 10 to 20 conversations?

Grant Kropfeld (00:27:30):

Usually, one, if it's a bad day, sometimes none. I'm averaging.

Isaiah Colton (00:27:34):

Yes.

Grant Kropfeld (00:27:35):

When you're doing leads and everything every day, you're going to have a day or two in a week that you're like hitting nothing, and it's frustrating.

Isaiah Colton (00:27:41):

Thank you for that. Thank you for that because there's people that we coach and train, and we work with, they'll do it for one day, they had a bad experience, but then they're like, "Oh, my gosh. This is horrible. I'm never going to do it again," and then there's no consistency, so I'm glad you brought that up. Yeah.

Grant Kropfeld (00:27:58):

Yeah. The next day you could easily hit five really good leads or five appointments set.

Isaiah Colton (00:28:02):

Right. Right.

Grant Kropfeld (00:28:03):

So it's the patience, and then it's just the persistence and the discipline to do it every single day. That's really all it comes down to.

Isaiah Colton (00:28:09):

That's awesome.

Grant Kropfeld (00:28:10):

So it's really looking at the long-term numbers, not the one-day or two-day averages.

Isaiah Colton (00:28:16):

That's great.

Isaiah Colton (00:28:16):

And then, after you've had the conversations, you've gotten your appointments, what's your appointment to contract rate?

Grant Kropfeld (00:28:27):

I would say we're above 50%. I had the numbers with KW, I haven't been able to log into the system since I left. In terms of the deals we did, and then we switched from doing a lot of our leads from Follow Up Boss, then to Vulcan7, so I am...

Isaiah Colton (00:28:45):

Transitioning?

Grant Kropfeld (00:28:46):

I had to use some [crosstalk 00:28:48] out of it.

Isaiah Colton (00:28:50):

Yeah.

Grant Kropfeld (00:28:50):

But it's about 50%, and I would say, the 50% that we have signed, and then the 50% that we don't have signed, the 50% that we don't have signed are still very high-probability that in the next six months we're still going to list them.

Isaiah Colton (00:29:04):

Right.

Grant Kropfeld (00:29:04):

We have three listings right now, they're just not going to come on the market for another two months because they're just not ready, but we have the contracts in hand, so they're just not on the market right now.

Isaiah Colton (00:29:17):

Okay.

Grant Kropfeld (00:29:18):

But we have another five or six that are very high-potential leads that we're following up with consistently, and we look to convert in the next three to four months here.

Isaiah Colton (00:29:31):

That's great.

Isaiah Colton (00:29:32):

And this is what I love about this lead source, okay. But, first of all, I want to say this, every lead source has its challenges.

Grant Kropfeld (00:29:39):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Isaiah Colton (00:29:40):

Every lead source has its challenges. Zillow has its unique challenges. Realtor.com leads have its unique challenges. Working for [inaudible 00:29:48] has its unique challenges. Every lead source has its unique challenges, you just got to make sure you understand the approach.

Isaiah Colton (00:29:55):

This analogy I like to give is, if I'm a golfer and I hit a shot, my next shot, my approach is going to be different than the previous shot. I'm going to use a different club. I'm going to have a different stance. My approach is different. And it's the same thing when you're going to a niche or you're working a different lead source, is your approach just has to be different. And I think that mindset is really important.

Isaiah Colton (00:30:20):

But this is what I love, for $10 to $15 a lead, to have that kind of return, there's not too many other lead sources that you're going to have that good of an opportunity. Okay?

Grant Kropfeld (00:30:37):

Especially on the listing side.

Isaiah Colton (00:30:38):

Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

Grant Kropfeld (00:30:38):

We had Zillow for a little while, a couple years back, and we ended it with them. But the majority of what we got from Zillow was just a bunch of tire kickers, and we had a different process with them than we do right now, but for the money that we were putting into it, what we were getting out, it didn't make sense for us.

Grant Kropfeld (00:31:01):

And I would rather put money into trying to find our own leads, through Facebook ads, things like that, than continuing to just pump money into something like Zillow, that was just giving us wish-washy buyer leads.

Isaiah Colton (00:31:14):

Yeah, and like you said. There's not too many seller-lead... you can get legitimate seller leads from them, and that's exciting.

Grant Kropfeld (00:31:21):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Isaiah Colton (00:31:21):

So, that's all really good.

Grant Kropfeld (00:31:23):

We've only had one buyer lead that converted. I am very heavy on the seller side, and that's why I like zBuyer so much, but I closed a buyer three weeks ago from the zBuyer as well.

Isaiah Colton (00:31:38):

That's great.

Grant Kropfeld (00:31:39):

It plays on both sides.

Isaiah Colton (00:31:41):

That's great.

Isaiah Colton (00:31:43):

What systems and tools do you guys have in place to nurture the leads that are not ready yet? We talked about lead generation here, what the numbers look like, we got to know our numbers, now we're filtering down into the lead follow-up.

Grant Kropfeld (00:32:00):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Isaiah Colton (00:32:01):

What kind of systems do you guys have in place to follow up with your leads?

Grant Kropfeld (00:32:05):

Yeah. I'll give you one of my top-secret secrets here as well, but-

Isaiah Colton (00:32:11):

Ooh, this is exciting. I feel special, Grant. This is exciting.

Grant Kropfeld (00:32:17):

Any lead that comes in is initially going to get a text message from us, and what it is, is it's a text message that says, "Hey, I saw you just put in for an offer valuation of the house, and is there anything else that you can tell us about the house before we get that to you?"

Grant Kropfeld (00:32:35):

It's the first touch, most times I get people to respond either with "no, nothing else," or I've had people add like, "Well, we have a two-car garage. We have this. We have that." And that helps to start the conversation when I call them. Plus, I've already engaged them.

Grant Kropfeld (00:32:52):

Then, if we don't make any context on that first call, they're going to hit an automatic plan in our system, a drip campaign, and, basically, what it does is, we have emails that go out, and it'll have a video with it or an article about selling your house, the current market. We're in the process of getting Homebot re-set up because, from our last brokerage, we were in cahoots with a mortgage company that we no longer-

Isaiah Colton (00:33:22):

Right, was kind of conducted with the... yeah.

Grant Kropfeld (00:33:24):

So I have to redo that whole thing, but I think Homebot's a great system to also stay on top of people long-run. But, what I do the most-

Isaiah Colton (00:33:33):

I just want to make a note. I want to make a note on that. This is my strong recommendation with Homebot because it's not very expensive, and as long as they're not some major budget constraint, you want to have your own Homebot system, you want to be in control of your Homebot system because it's such an effective tool, and I'll let you explain why.

Isaiah Colton (00:33:53):

But, go ahead and talk about Homebot. It's an awesome tool.

Grant Kropfeld (00:33:55):

Yeah, the Homebot thing, just I can touch on that real quick. You have to have a mortgage partner lender-

Isaiah Colton (00:34:01):

Yes.

Grant Kropfeld (00:34:02):

... to use it. They pay the brunt of it, and then you pay, as a realtor, a small fee to use your side. So, actually, my business partner's wife is a licensed lender as well. She really doesn't use her license much, but we're working to get her as the-

Isaiah Colton (00:34:17):

Awesome.

Grant Kropfeld (00:34:17):

... sponsor for it, so that we can continue to use the realtor side instead of the company that we had using that. And they didn't really use their side of it all.

Isaiah Colton (00:34:27):

Oh, they didn't? Okay.

Grant Kropfeld (00:34:27):

They were just doing it out of a courtesy to us...

Isaiah Colton (00:34:30):

Got it.

Grant Kropfeld (00:34:30):

... because we sent them so many deals. But we're trying to keep it just all in-house, and, potentially, get even mortgage leads that we can, potentially, push off onto some of our other mortgage partners that send us leads as well.

Isaiah Colton (00:34:42):

I like it.

Grant Kropfeld (00:34:44):

It's a good circle.

Isaiah Colton (00:34:45):

It's like an ancillary benefit of using Homebot, right?

Grant Kropfeld (00:34:49):

Yeah, it pays for itself, no problem, because it's a very intuitive email that they get every single month, where they can see their current home value, equity. It gives them tips on if they refinance, if they pay this, if they paid that. And then, you get to see when they click on things and what they're looking at, and you can then follow up with them per what they've clicked on.

Grant Kropfeld (00:35:14):

It's a pretty cool way to stay in touch with them, and that leads me into my little secret, here, and that's with the system BombBomb. If you don't have BombBomb, you have to get it. For the price that you pay, if you get one extra deal out of it, it's paid for itself for the next five years. But, the best thing that I get from BombBomb, besides being able to put my face in front of them, is that it has a great tracking system.

Isaiah Colton (00:35:43):

Yes.

Grant Kropfeld (00:35:43):

So any time I send an email, and that's normally what I'll do, is I'll follow up with an email, it tells me when they opened it, how much of the video they watched, it also tells me when they open it again a month from now, two months from now. I get alerted.

Grant Kropfeld (00:35:57):

And if I ever have somebody that's not ready to seel right now...

Isaiah Colton (00:36:03):

Yep.

Grant Kropfeld (00:36:03):

... what I normally do is, I'll say, "Hey, worst-case, I'm going to send you a home valuation right now, what I think it would sell on the market. Because I haven't seen it, I can't give you an exact number, but you'll get a rough estimate from this, kind of a range." And all I do is go in and literally just create a quick, automatic CMA in our MLS, PDF, put in the email, and then I make a quick, 2-minute BombBomb video. And I screen-share, and I go over the CMA for a minute, just saying here's this, here's that, here's that. They watch it.

Grant Kropfeld (00:36:35):

But when, a month or two months from now, they go back and open that email again to look at that CMA, I know that they just opened that email. So I can call them the next day and say, "Hey, just checking in on you, seeing where you guys were at," and now it's coinciding to that recent thought that they had of whatever it was, looking back at their home price or value. Obviously, something triggered them to want to go back and look at that.

Grant Kropfeld (00:37:02):

So that's my little secret of tracking these leads.

Isaiah Colton (00:37:08):

And here's the thing, because I want to explain the psychology of this, how many agents are taking their time to actually do the CMA, and actually do a little video? And that's how you create that stickiness in the relationship, and that's the difference between the sales funnel mindset and actually thinking about the whole life cycle of the lead. It's those little tiny things that are going to separate you from your competition.

Isaiah Colton (00:37:35):

If you are a client with REN, and you are with our technology and consulting, we actually have that video, if you haven't had a chance to play around with it, go play around with it because we actually have an embedded video feature where you can do mass video through text and through email, and also, you could do individual email, a lot like BombBomb.

Isaiah Colton (00:37:59):

But for anybody that is not using REN, I love BombBomb, they are absolutely awesome. For the money too, it's a great tool. So that's good, that's awesome.

Isaiah Colton (00:38:15):

Let's talk about scripts and dialogues.

Grant Kropfeld (00:38:22):

Okay.

Isaiah Colton (00:38:22):

Bring us to the first call, or the first conversation, I would say. Am I right? So we know how the follow-up process is when they first come down, and now you're going to reach out to them.

Isaiah Colton (00:38:35):

Walk us through that script and that dialogue that happens there.

Grant Kropfeld (00:38:38):

Yeah. The first thing I'll say is you have to have a script. If you're winging it off-the-cuff, you're just asking to not do as good as you can, and your conversions are not going to be as high. The reason I say that is, and the best analogy I ever got was, actors, you watch them in movies, that's not who they are. Leonardo DiCaprio is not who he is in the movies. He's playing a role, and he has a script that he's internalized so well that you believe him that much when he's playing it on the movie.

Isaiah Colton (00:39:16):

That's great. Yep.

Grant Kropfeld (00:39:17):

And that's really what you have to do is, whatever script you end up using, you're going to tweak it, you're going to adjust it, you're going to make it yours, but you have to have a script, and you have to memorize it, and you have to internalize it and practice it all the time.

Isaiah Colton (00:39:30):

It's kind of like going on a road trip and having no guide, having no GPS, like having no compass. And that's kind of what I'm hearing you say, is that script is your compass, it's your guide, it's the pathway to reach the goal. And somebody might take a little bit of a different pathway, right?

Grant Kropfeld (00:39:50):

Yep.

Isaiah Colton (00:39:50):

But making their own. But yeah, it blows my mind how many people don't have a script and don't keep a script in front of them...

Grant Kropfeld (00:39:59):

I know.

Isaiah Colton (00:39:59):

... to keep them on track, and we wonder why we're not converting leads, it's mind-blowing.

Grant Kropfeld (00:40:05):

I have a script board that I'll set up. And it's one of those science boards, and I've got my script.

Isaiah Colton (00:40:10):

That's awesome.

Grant Kropfeld (00:40:11):

And I've simplified it down. I have my intro that I have memorized, and then, it's got different points and different phrases, and different things that are scripted. And then, a lot can just vary in between.

Isaiah Colton (00:40:25):

Yep.

Grant Kropfeld (00:40:25):

When I read Jordan Belfort's book, the Way of the Wolf, I think it is.

Isaiah Colton (00:40:30):

Yep.

Grant Kropfeld (00:40:30):

He talks about how he... I think it's, what is it? The straight-line selling process or whatever, but it clicked that's what I was already doing in terms of, "I have a goal, and I'm going to continue to cycle people, keep them on that line-

Isaiah Colton (00:40:46):

Yes.

Grant Kropfeld (00:40:46):

... every time they try to get off, I'm going to veer them back." But if I don't have my scripts, and I don't know exactly where I'm going or where the end leads-

Isaiah Colton (00:40:54):

You went off, woo! You're way over... yeah.

Grant Kropfeld (00:40:58):

Way gone, and then, I've really lost the chance of getting to the goal that I really wanted to do.

Isaiah Colton (00:41:03):

That's good.

Grant Kropfeld (00:41:03):

So, for me, scripting, the first thing I open up with, and I'm really trying to build rapport, just a massive amount of rapport. And this, first impressions are everything. We don't want to come off sales-y. We don't come off... I've heard people starting like, "Oh, I saw you put in for a home valuation. When are you looking to sell?"

Isaiah Colton (00:41:26):

Right.

Grant Kropfeld (00:41:29):

The first thing is, "I never did that," or, "I didn't put that in."

Isaiah Colton (00:41:32):

Yep. You're not getting them, jerk up right away.

Grant Kropfeld (00:41:34):

Yeah. The two key things that I've found, that are like a real soft opening is, first, I announce who I am. I'm not playing games with people in terms of who I am or what I do. So I say, "I'm Grant Kropfeld, with the MI Sold Team, and I'm just doing a courtesy follow-up..." because I already knew they put in for the price evaluation.

Grant Kropfeld (00:41:57):

So I say I'm doing a courtesy follow-up, the "courtesy" hits them with that, "Okay, it's a chill conversation. They're not really trying to sell me. It's a courtesy thing."

Isaiah Colton (00:42:06):

Yep.

Grant Kropfeld (00:42:07):

And then I say, "I had a note," meaning that it's not necessarily just me trying to sell you, it's that somebody gave me a note to reach out to you, and, to me, it sounds a little more-

Isaiah Colton (00:42:18):

Personable.

Grant Kropfeld (00:42:21):

... purposeful that I'm reaching out to them because somebody gave me a note to make this phone call.

Grant Kropfeld (00:42:29):

And then, from there, I lead into-

Isaiah Colton (00:42:30):

Which is true, by the way, because zBuyer gave you the note. They gave you a note, right?

Grant Kropfeld (00:42:35):

Again, I'm not lying to them. I might not be getting on and saying, "Hey, I got this lead from zBuyer that you put in," no, that's not [crosstalk 00:42:41].

Isaiah Colton (00:42:41):

Yeah, which would even be stupid to say that, right? But yeah, absolutely. Yeah, go on. Yeah.

Grant Kropfeld (00:42:46):

I give them my name. I give them my business, and I say, "This is a courtesy follow-up. I have a note here that you put in for a price offer evaluation on your house on whatever street, 123 Main Street."

Grant Kropfeld (00:42:59):

And then, what I do, this is kind of, I would say, maybe the sleazy thing, if you want to say it, but it's really just a little segue into... I just say, "Did you end up getting an email on that yet, or have you seen the email on that, and do you have any questions on it?"

Isaiah Colton (00:43:15):

Yeah.

Grant Kropfeld (00:43:16):

And I expect the answer is, "No, I haven't got that email." I go, "Okay-"

Isaiah Colton (00:43:19):

That's good. That's really good.

Grant Kropfeld (00:43:22):

It sets the stage for now, "Okay, well, let me start asking these questions, and let me give you now what you had initially asked for."

Isaiah Colton (00:43:33):

That's really good.

Grant Kropfeld (00:43:34):

So I just, "Have you gotten the email yet, and do you have any questions on it?" And they're like, "Oh, I haven't gotten it, or I haven't seen it yet." And then I'll be like, "Okay, well, are you looking to sell?" I start to then gauge, and I go into my question that I have in my listing.

Grant Kropfeld (00:43:50):

And so, my ultimate goal is to get a walkthrough appointment. I usually start it with a softer... if it seems like they need the list, then I'll go right into setting a listing appointment. But if they're still wishy-washy, they're not really sure about the process, I get a lot better close rate if I can just get my foot in the door. They get to meet me. We get to have the conversation. That's where I can really start to lay on the sales pitch, is when I'm face-to-face.

Grant Kropfeld (00:44:20):

My ultimate goal, and I'll ask it, sometimes multiple times, is... I learned it this way, always lead and set the standards for your clients. So I'll say, "What happens with most people in your situation, what we do is we come out, and we walk the property for about 15 minutes, then I can really be able to tell, what I'm looking at, what we're dealing with, and we can decide if maybe a cash offer's best for you, or, if it makes sense, we could potentially list it on the market since we're a fully licensed real estate company as well."

Grant Kropfeld (00:44:54):

So we get very little pushback on that. And you know, again, pretty early on, if they're ready and willing, and if they have intention to. You're asking these questions. You're kind of pushing them. The objections that I seem to get most of the time are, "I didn't put it in for this. I don't know what you're talking about." And that's typical, I don't expect anything less from a lot of people when you feel like you're giving them a sales call. That's why I really try to make it not seem like a sales call off the bat, so much as a courtesy follow-up call.

Isaiah Colton (00:45:29):

Right.

Grant Kropfeld (00:45:31):

And then, one of the best tips I ever got for handling any objections for people is from a guy named Pauly C, out of Texas, he's a KW agent and coach, and he made this plan. It's repeat, approve, plus, and move. So you're repeating what they're saying, if they're giving you some sort of objection like, "Ah, well, I'm not really ready to sell right now," or, "I was just looking into it."

Grant Kropfeld (00:45:58):

And I go, "You're just looking into it. Hey, I totally appreciate that. I can see because it's a hot market, you're just trying to find out and gauge maybe what your house is worth. Let me ask you. If you were to get an offer that makes sense to you in the next 30 days, would that be a potential for you to consider moving?" And I just move right past whatever their objection is right into another question, and I just keep moving it on to get that 15 to 20-minute appointment if it doesn't seem like it's going to be a listing.

Isaiah Colton (00:46:28):

Yeah, I think that's so powerful because if I was to listen to 100 calls of people working with zBuyers, I'd guarantee probably 70 out of 100 times, if they haven't had experience working zBuyer leads, that's where they get jammed up and they don't know where to go next.

Isaiah Colton (00:46:48):

So for those of you that are just starting, or maybe getting jammed up working zBuyer leads, I really want you to pay attention to that formula he just laid out for you because you can use that formula no matter what... well, I call it "knee-jerk." But whatever response they're giving to you, the reason why I call it a knee-jerk is because it's not necessarily an objection because you haven't asked for anything yet...

Grant Kropfeld (00:47:10):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Isaiah Colton (00:47:11):

... necessarily. A lot of times, that particular one, anyway, they'll say, "Well, I didn't put my information in." It's not really an objection, so you want to be careful how you're handling that to not create too much friction in the conversation.

Isaiah Colton (00:47:25):

Would you agree with that, Grant?

Grant Kropfeld (00:47:27):

Oh, yeah.

Isaiah Colton (00:47:28):

And that's why I love your formula, if you could repeat that one more time? Because you're maintaining control of the conversation by doing that, and keeping them on that straight line as you move on to the next process, is what I noticed.

Grant Kropfeld (00:47:41):

Yeah, so the formula is repeat, repeat back what they're saying.

Isaiah Colton (00:47:45):

Yep.

Grant Kropfeld (00:47:46):

Approve, so you're giving some sort of approval, whether that's, "Hey, I understand. I appreciate that."

Grant Kropfeld (00:47:52):

You're, what he calls, plussing it, meaning you're giving kind of a little synopsis of what they're talking about, maybe expanding on it a little more like, "Hey, I get it. The housing market's hot. You were just interested in what your house was worth."

Grant Kropfeld (00:48:05):

And then, I transitioned into another question to lead them back onto the road that I want them to be on.

Isaiah Colton (00:48:11):

Yep.

Grant Kropfeld (00:48:11):

I've given them a validation of their objection, and now I'm putting them back on the straight and narrow of, "If we could sell in the next 30 days..."

Grant Kropfeld (00:48:22):

And I'm a huge proponent of burn every option that you can before you get them off the phone.

Isaiah Colton (00:48:30):

Yes.

Grant Kropfeld (00:48:30):

So often, and when I was early on and calling everything too, as soon as you got a "no" or "not interested," it was like, "Okay, sorry for disrupting your day," and a hang-up. Many more, I'm asking friends, family, relatives, do they know anybody that needs to sell.

Grant Kropfeld (00:48:46):

But my favorite question, this is one that has filled my pipeline for the next two years more than anything else ever has, and it helps me get the foot in the door for anybody that's not ready to sell right now, maybe not even in the next year. And this is the question I ask everybody, I say, "Before I let you go, let me ask you something, hypothetically speaking, if you had to sell tomorrow, do you have a real estate agent that you trust to sell your property, or is there an opportunity to win that business if that day ever comes?"

Isaiah Colton (00:49:15):

Wow, that's powerful.

Grant Kropfeld (00:49:17):

Nine times out of ten, they say, "No, I don't have a real estate agent." And I go, "Okay, is it okay with you if I just call from time to time, send you an email maybe, and I just keep you up to date on what your house value is, things maybe going on in your neighborhood, does that sound fair to you?" Nine times out of ten, people are, "Yep, that's fine. That sounds good to me."

Grant Kropfeld (00:49:39):

So if I've exhausted all my options, and if there's circumstances, they're not ready to sell right now, maybe they were just seeing what their property is worth, but you never know what's going to happen in the next year or two, three years down the road. When I've gotten that "yes" out of them, it's very easy for me to... I've gotten that green light that I can put them into my system.

Isaiah Colton (00:49:59):

Right.

Grant Kropfeld (00:49:59):

And you're going to start seeing me on Facebook, on Instagram, you're going to get emails, they're going to get six-month follow-up calls. They're not going to fall into the cracks, and I'm not just going to forget about them just because they're not ready right this second.

Isaiah Colton (00:50:15):

That's really awesome. I want to back up just a little bit because let's say you get past that knee-jerk, what other questions are you asking along the way before you transition into asking for the appointment, that in-person appointment?

Grant Kropfeld (00:50:31):

Yeah, so I'm really trying to gauge their motivation. Motivation is the number one thing. If you can find their motivation, you can find their pain points, and that's where you can really start to move them.

Grant Kropfeld (00:50:42):

So I'm trying to ask questions a little bit deeper than just that they want to know their house value. I say, "If you could move, is there somewhere that you would move," and I start to trudge up some of the scenarios to try to find what their real motivation is. I'm looking for the motivation, and then I'm also looking for details on the house as well.

Isaiah Colton (00:51:05):

Right.

Grant Kropfeld (00:51:05):

I'm really trying to just continue the rapport building, and gauge if this is a very serious person or not, somebody that I need to push a little bit harder, and that's something that you... (silence)

Isaiah Colton (00:51:24):

You cut out, can you hear me okay? Could you check your settings? I don't know if it's on my end or your end. Let me see here.

Isaiah Colton (00:51:36):

Do you mind trying talking again?

Grant Kropfeld (00:51:43):

Yeah, I think I-

Isaiah Colton (00:51:44):

Okay, good.

Grant Kropfeld (00:51:45):

... cut out.

Isaiah Colton (00:51:46):

Yep. Sweet. So say that last part again.

Grant Kropfeld (00:51:51):

Yeah, so I'm just trying to gauge where they're at. And as I've done it for a long time now, and just worked calls and things like that, you just get an innate feeling on the people that you need to push a little bit more. And then, the people aren't really ones that you're going to want to push that much harder because you can feel it.

Isaiah Colton (00:52:14):

You can feel it, right.

Grant Kropfeld (00:52:15):

I can't really put it on like an exact formula to it, but the more calls you make, and the more you're doing it, you just know which ones you need to push on and the ones you-

Isaiah Colton (00:52:24):

Yes.

Grant Kropfeld (00:52:25):

... do nothing.

Isaiah Colton (00:52:27):

Here's the rule of thumb when we train prospecting, and everyone has a different comfort level with this, I want to state that upfront. But unless you're willing to push the line a little bit, you never know how far that line can go, and you want to find that balance of breaking rapport but still going through your cycles, right?

Grant Kropfeld (00:52:49):

Yep.

Isaiah Colton (00:52:50):

And not letting them off the phone too soon. If you're a new person, I'd rather have you maybe go a little bit over the top instead of never finding what that line is. Because if you don't ever step out of your comfort zone and find... you will never learn that art and science of the push and pull of the call.

Isaiah Colton (00:53:12):

Grant, would you agree with that?

Grant Kropfeld (00:53:13):

Yeah. Yeah, you have to push your boundaries a little bit, and especially get out of your comfort zone. I'll tell you a little quick story here. Three years ago, I just started in the business, and I was not the best on the phones. I was trying to work on the scripts. I'd go to scripts practice and role play, and the whole nine yards. It was probably three or four months, I read this book, Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss, a great book about negotiating. In the book, he talks about how when he was trying to get into the FBI, he couldn't get in to be a negotiator. They told him to go work at this suicide hotline and come back in a year.

Grant Kropfeld (00:53:53):

After reading that, for the second time, I had, for some reason, gone online, searched it, found the suicide hotline place, three or four miles down the road from me, and called them, had an appointment two days later to interview, and before I knew, I was in this 100 hour training process to work on a suicide hotline.

Grant Kropfeld (00:54:16):

Completed the seven weeks of training, and I've been doing it for almost three years now, or a little over two and a half years, and that truly changed how I made phone calls because nothing gets more serious than somebody that's in a place like that. And you have to get comfortable with asking very uncomfortable questions of those people, and that really pushed me to be much more comfortable to push those boundaries when I started having real estate conversations, and it really grounded me in terms of I didn't care how this conversation was going to go because nothing could be as bad as the one I had just had on Friday when I was working at the suicide hotline.

Isaiah Colton (00:54:55):

That's really cool.

Grant Kropfeld (00:54:56):

That was [crosstalk 00:54:57] changing lanes in terms of my thought process on it.

Isaiah Colton (00:55:00):

That's really cool. A couple action steps for our viewers because I don't ever want anyone to watch a podcast and you guys be comfortable just saying, "Hey, I got some good information." My goal is to get you to execute. I want to get you out of your comfort zone. I know Grant wants the same things for you because that's how he's making all these commissions, is getting out of your comfort zone.

Isaiah Colton (00:55:22):

Here's what I'd ask you guys to do as an action step with this podcast, is go back and watch this over and over again, and hear, and listen to that formula, that straight-line formula that Grant put in place, and what I want you to do is actually practice your language when you get that knee-jerk, so that's number one.

Isaiah Colton (00:55:45):

And then, there's some other ones. Grant, what other ones might they get that could be a knee-jerk or an objection that they would want to practice, really practice role-playing through?

Grant Kropfeld (00:55:55):

That formula is the real big one, finding an intro script that works for you, that is not pushy, that is not sales-y, that comes off as-

Isaiah Colton (00:56:06):

Yeah, that intro script is awesome. I'm going to actually outline an intro script for them, but what other objections are they going to run into like, "Not right now. I was just curious." What other... yeah?

Grant Kropfeld (00:56:20):

You're going to get the, "I'm not ready right now. I was just curious." Again, you push through it, "Hey, I understand, you're just curious about it. It's great to know what your house value is. But let's say you could sell your house in the next 30 days for top dollar because we're at their highest point we've been at in the market, in history, right now, is that something that you'd be willing to, at least, have a 15-minute conversation about, in-person, that we could talk a little bit more about?"

Isaiah Colton (00:56:49):

I love it. Yeah, I love it.

Grant Kropfeld (00:56:49):

And that might be the first close try, it might take two or three more to push through to finally get that system.

Isaiah Colton (00:56:55):

That's right. That's right.

Isaiah Colton (00:56:59):

The next action step is make sure you have, what I call, verbal advantage, or make sure you have language written out on what you're going to say...

Grant Kropfeld (00:57:08):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Isaiah Colton (00:57:09):

... okay, to overcome those objections, what questions you're going to ask based on the scenarios, and take the time to map that out.

Isaiah Colton (00:57:16):

And, look, we have guides. We're going to provide you the guides, but print the guides off and have them in front of you. And you can tweak them as you go, and you can tweak the language as you go, but make sure that you don't put yourself in a position where you're back is up against the wall, and you're just going on the fly, because that's where conversion suffers, to Grant's point earlier. It suffers in a big way.

Isaiah Colton (00:57:43):

So that's the next action step, is make sure you have your guides and your scripts, and your dialogues and they're set up with this framework and keeping this framework in mind. And make sure that you're taking time to practice it and role play.

Isaiah Colton (00:57:58):

And the next action step is listen to your calls, okay? Make sure that you listen to how you sound, here's your rule of thumb, okay? Would you set up an appointment with you? Okay. When you're listening to your own call, before you blame the leads, before you blame the prospect, before you blame whatever, or you get frustrated, just ask yourself that honest question. Would you have set up the appointment with you based on your responses and how you respond?

Isaiah Colton (00:58:30):

And then, if you're our student, you know in the sales and marketing playbook, we have a seven-step evaluation scorecard that walks you through grading yourself on building rapport, building value, creating urgency and desire, asking effective tie-down questions. If you noticed, he asked a question. Asking effective tie-down questions that'll lead you to an appointment, and then overcoming your objections, and then making sure you're following up and tracking your metrics.

Isaiah Colton (00:58:57):

And if you follow that kind of scorecard, you're going to get great at booking zBuyer leads. You're going to be absolutely awesome working zBuyer leads.

Isaiah Colton (00:59:05):

So, please, don't just listen to this podcast and say, "Wow, what awesome information," and then feel this gratification because you have this excitement going on and feeling like you've accomplished something because you've gained access to new information. That feeling, it's an addiction. In our society, and in our world, we get addicted to the excitement of new information and we actually trick ourselves into thinking we've accomplished something.

Isaiah Colton (00:59:31):

And I'm going to be real with you because I give you real talk. You have accomplished nothing by listening to this podcast, nothing. Now, don't get me wrong, you've taken action enough to be proactive to learn, so I don't want to discredit anything for that. I commend you, but that's not our problem in today's world. Our problem is taking action, taking immediate freaking action, coming off this podcast and going back, and listening to this podcast over and over and over again, employing the golden nuggets that Grant gave you so you can turn these ideas into cash flow, into money, into results, into a system, and that's where you're going to win.

Isaiah Colton (01:00:19):

I'm so excited for you guys. I want to be here every part of the way, as far as helping you master zBuyer leads.

Isaiah Colton (01:00:28):

Grant, is there anything else that you can think of, that you'd like to share with them, that they can kind of carve their system as they're building their own system out working zBuyer leads?

Grant Kropfeld (01:00:37):

I'm going to leave you guys with this. So our new business partner through eXp, a great guy named Justin Ford, he is one of Jeff Glover's head coaches at Glover U. Jeff Glover's one of the biggest KW agents in the United States. I know him, personally, very good guy.

Isaiah Colton (01:00:54):

Yes.

Grant Kropfeld (01:00:54):

Here's the thing.

Isaiah Colton (01:00:55):

Yes, awesome.

Grant Kropfeld (01:00:56):

His story, he talks about how he got a coach, and he wanted to get 10 million in sales in a year. He ended up hitting 16 or 17 million. The way he did it was his consistent lead generation every day, but the way he held himself accountable, his coach did this for him, and you can find somebody to do this. If you want to hire a coach, whatever, but you can have just somebody that you trust to do this.

Grant Kropfeld (01:01:22):

He gave his credit card number to his coach. If he didn't send a picture of himself in the office, by 8:00 a.m., Monday through Friday, with his headset on, ready to make calls, his coach had the authority to charge $100 to a charity that he absolutely hated, not the one that he liked, one that he would never put any money towards. He never missed a day-

Isaiah Colton (01:01:49):

That is so cool.

Grant Kropfeld (01:01:49):

... the whole year, and sold 16 million that year, by himself. If you really want to work, Jeff says it best, the only way you're going to be truly successful is to get comfortable with doing the mundane lead generation every single day. It's boring, there's nothing really exciting about it. It's repetitive. We have a hard time as humans to do that, but if you can get somebody to help hold you accountable, to make sure that you're doing the things that you need to do in your business every single day.

Grant Kropfeld (01:02:18):

If you had the worst script, if you had no script, if you had nothing, and you just picked up the phone and made those calls, it's a numbers game at the end of the day, you will get one, maybe two people that you can convert. Doing this stuff is only going to increase that five, 10, 20 times more if you're practicing and doing everything better. But just doing it, in general, you're going to see results. There's no magic show [crosstalk 01:02:40]

Isaiah Colton (01:02:39):

I love that you said that. I love that you said that.

Grant Kropfeld (01:02:43):

[crosstalk 01:02:43]

Isaiah Colton (01:02:44):

Yes. I'm so glad you said that because I want you to think of success as building a skyscraper. So what we've done here today is, we're giving you all the things that are above the ground, meaning all the things that have to go in place to build the skyscraper, to actually make sure you're building, you're building, you're building.

Grant Kropfeld (01:03:08):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Isaiah Colton (01:03:09):

What he just shared with you, this will never happen if you don't have the foundation of the skyscraper in place, and that's your consistency, right?

Grant Kropfeld (01:03:18):

Yeah.

Isaiah Colton (01:03:18):

And so, I think that's another big problem too, is we get all excited about all the things above the surface, and it's the foundational principle of pigheaded persistence and consistency, and showing up, and stepping into our goals every day.

Grant Kropfeld (01:03:34):

Yep. And I'll tell you this, it really changed my business and my mindset when I really started hammering the phones every single day, and getting leads was... when I was in the one to two deals were happening at a time, and I had very little leads coming in, or anything like that, nothing on the horizon, anything little thing that happened in that deal was very scary. It was like, "I could lose this deal, and I'm going to lose this commission check," and it would weigh on me.

Grant Kropfeld (01:04:01):

Now that I have 10 deals happening right now, and we have five more in the immediate pipeline. I've got three listings coming up soon. Any little thing that happens, I'm just like, "Whatever, I got more deals coming. I'm going to make calls today. If one deal falls apart today, I'm going to find another one during this all session."

Isaiah Colton (01:04:19):

Awesome.

Grant Kropfeld (01:04:20):

The relief has come off, everything has just been so much better. So the more you can work these leads, if you don't have leads to put into your pipeline and into your circle of how you're working them and how you're keeping them in a loop, you're not going to have anything in six months.

Isaiah Colton (01:04:35):

And that's another thing too, another big problem. We get a little momentum, but then we lose focus, right?

Grant Kropfeld (01:04:46):

Yep.

Isaiah Colton (01:04:47):

It drops off, and we're scrambling again.

Grant Kropfeld (01:04:49):

You're on the rollercoaster.

Isaiah Colton (01:04:50):

Yeah. Yeah. Or, again, get off the rollercoaster, get off this flywheel motto, think holistically, or think long-term, right?

Grant Kropfeld (01:05:00):

Absolutely.

Isaiah Colton (01:05:00):

And, Grant, this has been an awesome freaking session. Thank you so much. Grant, we got a couple hundred thousand followers that this is going to go out to, and I want to make sure that you guys have access to grant if you have a referral in his market. So, Grant, just if you could say where you're from and maybe the best way to get a hold of you if somebody has a referral for you and your market, that'd be great.

Grant Kropfeld (01:05:25):

Sure, yeah. So we're in the Metro Detroit area, we work Macomb, Oakland, Lapeer, we work the whole Detroit area and outside of it. We have partners all around. So the best way to get a hold of me is at Grant@MISoldTeam.com, is my email. And then, if you need to call me or whatever, it's 248-213-8606, but the email is going to be your quickest way, so just Grant@MISoldTeam.com.

Isaiah Colton (01:05:53):

Awesome, thanks, Grant.

Isaiah Colton (01:05:54):

If you want to learn more about how to create a turn-key sales and marketing plan, and making sure that you have the technology to actually fulfill and execute on that plan, you can also go to RealEstateNexus.io, and you can check out how we can help you develop a custom sales and marketing plan to cultivate your database and generate more listing opportunities.

Isaiah Colton (01:06:15):

Thanks for tuning into the podcast, and we'll see you guys on the next podcast.